Liz Shuler has one of the toughest jobs in America. As president of the AFL-CIO, she is the de facto leader of the U.S. labor movement at a moment when the Oval Office is occupied by one of the most virulently anti-labor presidents in our nation’s history. In March, Trump signed an executive order to strip the collective bargaining rights of federal workers. In a wide-ranging conversation with Fast Company editor-in-chief Brendan Vaughan, Shuler explains why she believes Trump may wind up being good for the U.S. labor movement. “The best organizer,” she says, “is a bad boss.” —Jay Woodruff