Re: Stairway To Heaven
Hi Bob-
Had to jump in on this one.
The "Stairway" claim was based on the 4 chord descending progression at the beginning of the song, which is similar to the Spirit one (and maybe 30 other songs- one of which Randy California came across and used for the Spirit piece- he didn't write it. He used it.)
The Grandfather of these progressions is: C, A minor, F, and G. Starting with the early 1950's, there are probably 500 of these songs, all with those 4 chords- but each with different melodies
and words. THAT should be the criteria for claims. C, A minor, F and G wasn't stolen- it's a standard single song form. Nobody owns these.
Robert Plant's vocal melody and haunting lyrics make "Stairway" uniquely different from anything else which might have occasional
similar chords.
It's called "Intellectual Property" and the Internet ate it.
One more thing- NOBODY in a Music Business Legal procedure is telling the truth.
Best
Joe Walsh
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From: Jon Webster
Subject: Stairway
"Yet the real revelation at the trial was how little money "Stairway" actually made. The performers' accountant said Page earned $615,000 and Plant $532,000 since 2011, Rhino said the song grossed $3 million and netted $868,000 in the same period."
Earned those sums from what?
Mechanical publishing?
Performance?
Which territories? US only? The world?
If the guys had a 50/50 split why are they different?
Master rights? Through Rhino? For US? For the world? What about the equitable remuneration? In the US? Only on digital
In Australia? The majors keep it all don't they?
Isn't the above the real problem?
Easy to bandie those figures about. Much less easy to understand them. Or to be party to the real figures.
Webbo
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Re: Stairway To Heaven
It’s not plagiarism. And I’m a huge Randy California fan. The descending chord figure in the first two bars is the same one, but from that point on they go to different chords. Two bars is not near the understood threshold of plagiarism. Rule of thumb has always been “My Sweet Lord/He’s So Fine”, that’s getting close, but then going to “I really want to see you” with the same melody and chords as the next four bars of “He’s So Fine”, bingo! We have a winner.
Having laymen saying, “Boy that sounds like just the same thing!” is NOT the way to decide plagiarism. Can you even begin to imagine how many songs using blues progressions would get hauled up?
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From: Mike Verzi
Subject: Re: Stairway To Heaven
Bob, did you see this?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT64JH-Vh98 Rik Emmett nails it on the Stairway to Heaven court case.
(Note this is worth watching to see Rik Emmett hit the notes, you marvel at his talent, and the sound...)
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Subject: Re: Stairway To Heaven
I wonder why Jagger and Richards never sued Neil Young for "Mr. Soul."? EXACT same guitar riff as "Satisfaction."
Why did Stephen Stills never sue David Allan Coe for "Willie, Waylon, and Me"? EXACT same melody and chord changes(at the start of the verses) as "Helplessly Hoping." Maybe Stills never heard it...or heard it and thought it sucked so bad he didn't want anyone to compare the two.
David Allgood
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From: Connie Stefanson
Subject: RE: Stairway To Heaven
Hello, Bob!
Two songs I’ve always felt shared a reeeeallly similar intro riff are "Can’t Stop" by the RHCP (from 0:23 to 0:33) and "Wild Eyes" (1:20 to 1:30) by The Stampeders. Both intro riffs are 10 seconds long. I played one on top of the other…freaky, man!
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From: Harvey Goldsmith
Subject: RE: Ticketing
1. You must define what a ticket is before deciding what it can do. ( This is the biggest problem that Government has failed to deal with) I was surprised to hear at the APPG that the report did not define a ticket.
My contention is that a ticket is an identification to a point of entry for a concert or experience NOT a commodity that can be bought and sold.
Primary ticket distributors have no skin in the game. They are like leaking sieves.
This allows for touts, bots and the secondary market to exist.
If tickets were only allowed to be sold for a 10% mark up, an exchange site would be made available to those who cannot use their tickets and for those who could not buy a ticket.
This would be managed by the promoters/ producers collectively with the 10% margin used to cover costs and a small profit.
If this procedure was to be adopted by the Government then :
A) the money would be in the right place
B) it would wipe out the secondary and touting market immediately
There are already a number of systems around that ensure that security dictates that only the person buying could enter an event.
If tickets are limited to a determined and advertised number per application then the BOTS are dealt with.
I have just seen the most secure system yet called YOTI, which does precisely that.
The problem today is that the primary ticketing operations also own secondary auction sites and send applicants to them at an early stage.
This is doing untold harm to our business.
In order to get a ticket for popular heroes you have to pay a huge premium to these sites.
This prevents
a) the real fans who continually support those heroes from getting tickets at the right price
b) they do not spend on Food and beverage nor merchandising
c) they do not support newer breaking acts as they have no surplus funds
d) most promoters deliberately price tickets at a fair price for fans. The reason is to encourage fans to try and support new artists and ideas. This keeps our business going.
e) the current state of affairs has turned off many people from attending events as they know they are being ripped off.
As a result the business is in decline on new artists.
Successive Governments have refused to listen to these pleas.
They do not understand how our business works and the harm being done as the public are turning a blind eye to new plays, artists etc.
The popular shows will always sell but unless more investment is given to creating new ideas and artists the future of the business is bleak.
Tourists are fed up being ripped off trying to get theatre tickets for the same reason.
Best
Harvey
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From: Marty Winsch
Subject: Re: Ticketing
Performances are not art. Performances are commodities. The moment an artist externalizes his or her output for financial gain, they become businessmen. The concept that these individuals are "artists" and therefore can transcend, control, are immune to the inherent delta that exists within supply and demand is arrogant and asinine.
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From: Tommy Lipuma
Subject: Re: You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone
Dear Bob,
I’m just turning 80 this coming July 5th, so your article “You Don’t Know What You’ve Got ’til It’s Gone” hit me quite deeply.
In the past two years, I’ve experienced the loss of too many of my friends, from Joe Sample and Natalie Cole to Dan Hicks, and this past March 9th, though he may not be known on the pop scene, one of the all time great composers and arrangers of the 20th century, Claus Ogerman.
Claus has literally worked with everyone from the ridiculous to the sublime. He arranged Leslie Gore’s “It’s my Party” for Quincy Jones, and did a slew of Connie Francis hits, but I learned about him when I heard the classic Antonio Carlos Jobim “The Composer Play’s” album, circa 1963, and later the classic Frank Sinatra album with Jobim.
I met him in 1966 at his publishing office in the Brill Building, about the time “Tin Pan Alley” was breathing its last breath. He arranged everything for me, from the George Benson “Breezin” album to Diana Krall’s ’The Look Of Love” among many others, including four of his own albums. He will truly be missed.
Best,
Tommy LiPuma
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From: Jake Udell
Subject: Re: Playlists, Not Radio
Hey Bob, I thought you may find the below information valuable -
Sure, Spotify has several playlists. However, they use their smaller playlists to evaluate data on listening patterns, retention, and most importantly skip rates.
This data from the smaller playlists helps them determine what order the songs should go in and more importantly which should graduate to the platforms bigger playlists. This is the new radio. However, it's way more efficient, accurate, and transparent to all stakeholders.
As far as that one playlist you speak of, they already have it. It's Today's Top Hits. It's the fifth largest audience in the world and growing faster than any audience everywhere. In a couple years, the add to this playlist will be the single largest audience in the world, bigger than Z100 or BBC Radio1.
Furthermore, the people in charge of this process have been working on it for years - It was a company by the name of Tunigo. I have met many of these executives, some of which come from the radio world. I can assure you they are the best and brightest when it comes to understanding what the fans want - They live and breathe the intersection of music curation and data.
Spotify is already breaking hits... And it's only just the beginning.
Best,
Jake
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From: Denton Biety
Subject: RE: Playlists, Not Radio
Just in case no one has already told you where to start with the new Paul Simon....
Try this, I heard it on KCRW and was quite pleasantly surprised.
open.spotify.com/track/5wys7OYZ9O9qppVvsuxKK6 Cheers!
Denton
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From: Raymond Lynn
Subject: Re: Playlists, Not Radio
Paul Simon - Wristband is the track
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From: Aldo Blardone
Subject: RE: Playlists, Not Radio
Dear Bob,
From Paul Simon new album, check The werewolf.
And from Mudcrutch, you can go with Trailer or Dreams of Flying.
Also try No Way by Gilbert O'Sullivan, Stones in my passway by Eric
Clapton, Rolling on by Peter Wolf, Need you tonight by Bonnie Raitt
(yes, the INXS song), and the whole Monkees new album.
Best,
Aldo
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From: Rich Price
Subject: Re: Playlists, Not Radio
Bob, I agree that radio is all but irrelevant- at least for music. When I was signed to Geffen in 2003, they sent me and my band on the road for 8 months to work on our live show and make appearances at the local AAA stations at each stop. Stations like KFOG in SF, WFUV in NYC, WXPN in Philly, would spin new acts like ours, alongside Van Morrison, Petty, U2, David Gray. But just last month, KFOG "reformatted" and fired most of the DJs that "Fogheads" relied on for their new music fix.
Guess which platform has given my band, The Sweet Remains, the best shot at finding new fans? Spotify.
And there are curators at Spotify. One of our tracks landed on its Your Favorite Coffeehouse playlist, and then a few more popped up there. We now have roughly 13 million plays on Spotify and more than 250k monthly listeners. It's gotten a lot of criticism for its model for paying artists- and these streaming services do need to figure it out- but Spotify, and to a lesser extent Pandora, is far more powerful a tool for indie bands like ours.
Best, Rich Price (The Sweet Remains)
"Moving in Slow Motion": 4,861,099
"When We Were Young": 2,132,657
"Dance With Me": 6,293,869
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From: Mark Rushton
Subject: Adult music playlists hiding in plain sight
I'm making the kind of playlist you might be interested in:
open.spotify.com/user/1235060861/playlist/3MsEXBIJAckcwsul2ScrIe "Wristband" by Paul Simon is GREAT!
So is that new Case / Lang / Viers track, "Atomic Number".
And I'm a sucker for modern recreations of 80's style synth pop, like "Diagram Girl" by Beyond The Wizard's Sleeve.
And Damien Jurado, that whole new album of his with the weird cover is FANTASTIC.
And Spotify put a song in my Discovery Weekly a while back by a band called The Clientele called "Bonfires on the Heath" which is OUTSTANDING, that band has been on hiatus a few years now.
And this Japanese singer songwriter guy Tomemitsu....
And on and on...
I post my playlist links here and there, FB, message boards, etc. I've got a bunch but I throw together new ones every 3 or 4 months. Nobody cares, though. Too many people are stuck in a cul de sac. Or they hate Spotify for irrational reasons. But I'm going to keep making them... FOR ME... It's fun!!!!
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From: Terry Tompkins
Subject: Re: Playlists, Not Radio
Bob. I agree with you here but there's more to consider. It's not just playlist"ING" but actual PLAYS! and the potential monetization of ancillary revenue streams through streaming platforms by identifying top listeners. Yesterday I got a message from Spotify on Brett Dennen's behalf. I must admit I have a penchant for Brett's music and not only does Spotify know it but so does Brett. The email stated I was a "top listener" of Brett's music and offered me a opportunity to pre-order tickets for his fall tour (before anyone else has access). What an amazing tool for artists and labels. We have gone from SS reports with geo and demographic profiles and Apple following suit with its limited customer data. Now you can learn who really loves your music and go D2F with complimentary marketing efforts. Huge potential here. In light of this, does even really matter if you ever even paid or acquired an album? What matters is who is listening and how often. If artists and labels are able to leverage concert tickets, merch and other ancillary revenue to fans who are engaged with the artists' music through Spotify and other SSP...streaming might have found a way to overcome the criticism of low payouts a offer a massive opportunity to it clients. Yes these fans have to find the artist and playlists will be key. What you can do with the data about your fans listening tendencies is paramount to steaming evolution.
Best Terry Tompkins
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From: Mitch Koulouris
Subject: Re: Mass Is Everything
Bob,
I couldn't agree more. When I started Digital Music Group in 2004, I drank The Long Tail Kool-aid almost daily. By the time we we went public on Nasdaq in 2006 it became clear The Long Tail was complete crap.
We had about 2 million tracks in our catalog at the time. The reality was the top 15% best selling tracks accounted for 90% of our revenues each month. 20% of our tracks didn't sell at all each month.
The same is true on the digital retailer side. The top 3 stores (iTunes, napster and rhapsody) accounted for 85% of our sales (with iTunes taking about 75-80% of that number each month). The remaining "long tail" of digital stores accounted for the remaining 15%, most of which generated nothing to nearly nothing.
Mass really is everything. Enjoyed the read.
Mitch Koulouris
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From: Michael A. Becker
Subject: RE: Mass Is Everything
Try this, it made me smile and is semi new. It made me dig and find out I liked all his stuff. Ray Davies meets J Mascis.
"I'm so sick of....fill in the blank".
"You have a right to be depressed, you haven’t tried hard enough to like it."
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_a1hPwXiWw ______________________________________
Subject: Re: Altamont
RE: Altamont. Sam Cutler was just here visiting in Macon recently. He was the Tour Manager for 1969 Stones Tour including Altamont. Met him later when he was with the Dead and Allman's combined with them on some big stadium shows in 1973 and Watkins Glen, the biggest of them all with Band, Dead and Allmans and about 600,000 intimate guests. Produced by Bill Graham for promoters Shelly Finkel and Jimmy Koplik. Each band was to receive a flat $117,500.00, but I watched as Allmans personal manager, the late Phil Walden, was able to secretly re-negotiate another $86,000.00 for the ABB only based on the size of the gate before the concert was declared free and open. A truly amazing weekend that was!
Anyway, Sam is a storybook character. I understand he whipped cancer once and is now fighting it again possibly. Peace and love to him.
Willie Perkins
Macon, GA
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From: colm
Subject: Re: Henry McCullough
Henry was Irish, Back in the 69's, Phil Lynnott, Gary Moore, Rory Gallagher, Paul Brady, we all had little bands. Another local lad with a band called "Them" was Van Morrison. In the last few years, when Henry was housebound and dying, Van paid all the money to have Henry's house remodeled to add to the quality of life in his dying years. Henry was revered In the Irish/English scene. A gentleman.
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From: Merel Bregante
Subject: Re: Henry McCullough
Bob...
I had the pleasure of meeting Henry. No big deal. I 'knew' him. He 'knew' me. It was an honor. Simple as that.
Henry was a players player. A journey man. A proud man. A fucking side man.
This year marks my fiftieth as a side man. When I say this, the level of pride I feel is far deeper than can be verbally expressed. Fifty years. No day gig. Still beating the shit out of a drum kit. Fuckin'-A!
God bless you, Henry. You always came to play. You always brought your very best game. 'Nuff said...
Peace to all...
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From: Max Suchov
Subject: Re: Bloodline
Bob -
I am a long time reader of your blog from my days in the music industry. I now lead business development efforts at Netflix for our Americas programmatic marketing team. Thrilled to hear you are enjoying Bloodline, it is an in-house favorite here at the office for exactly the reasons you've outlined. It is one of the first times we've taken the liberty to dive so deep into character development and let the acting really make the statement.
Having worked in the old guard of Hollywood, I have to tell you being here is a remarkably different experience. We are agile, deliberate and empowered to take risks. You may have heard about our culture deck and how differently we operate as a team. I believe these values are the reason we make content a bit differently, and why I think the traditional system can't stop making the same film/tv show over and over again. This is a special place and I feel lucky to be here and witnessing it from the inside.
A quick recommendation / shameless plug:
We have Baz Luhrmann's - The Get Down coming out in a few months which I sincerely hope you will enjoy. It is the story of the birth of Hip-Hop in the Bronx and the transition from Disco into something radically different. It is one of our most ambitious productions to date and from one music fan to another, I sincerely hope you enjoy it.
Also - one of our most overlooked projects is Peaky Blinders - an epic gangster drama set in the lawless streets of post-war Birmingham on the cusp of the 1920s. I'm a few seasons into it and amazed that very few people have caught on so far.
Thanks for doing what you do.
Best,
Max
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Subject: Re: Steph Curry
Bob -
At first I rolled my eyes at your premise.... then I thought about it, and related it to what my kid, 15, has been going through this year via basketball. He's a video gamer, not a music nut like me, and he's also very passionate about first college basketball and, over the past couple of years, NBA. It doesn't hurt that he is already taller than me, has a dead-eye 3 pointer, and sometimes can even dribble like Pistol Pete Maravich (who, just to bring in a few degrees of separation theory, was a counselor at Lefty Drisell's summer basketball camp at Davidson College all those years ago - and who taught yours truly and his fellow campers ballhandlng tricks after hours in the dorm).
What strikes me: some of the NBA players, and this year Curry in particular, are indeed verging on being his Beatles. The parallels, from the obsessive scrutiny to the memorization of stats and the like, and the inspiration factor to attempt what they are doing, are uncanny. If the Beatles launched a zillion bands from my generation, I can accept the fact that Curry is launching a zillion little basketball players. Hell, he's even got me sold; my son and I have watched every Warriors playoff game so far. Everybody needs to dream, and to have a hero. Here's hoping Curry understands what a huge responsibility it can be, though, as a role model. He's got good role models himself in his mom and dad (who, just to bring in some more degrees of separation theory, shopped for dress shoes during his Hornets years at the same Charlotte fashion store that I worked at and sold dress shoes for at the time). John Lennon never quite figured out the implications of the role model thing, I don't think, although he did show admirable flashes of it from time to time.
Fred Mills
Asheville NC
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Subject: Re: Me
I don't have a surgery story, but the long weekend aspect hit home for me.
I was 21 yrs old and living at home. A friend wanted to store some hot merchandise in our garage over, you guessed it, Memorial Day weekend. The stuff is in the garage and my parents are not happy. Saturday morning, a police detective shows up at the front door looking for me. Somehow I managed to hide the fact that my stomach was sinking and my head was spinning. It turns out to be totally unrelated. He was questioning a kid down the street about some expensive (stolen?) parts on his BMX bike. The kid panicked and said he got them from me. At the time I was working at a Bicycle wholesaler. Needless to say, a very long long weekend.
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From: Neil Lasher
Subject: Re: Re-Shoulder Surgery
OK just a bid on opioids. As a certified interventionist, counselor and a person with 29 years of recovery you must really take very seriously the use of pain pills after a few days. There is a heroin epidemic in this country caused directly by doctors who prescribed these meds willy-nilly. After months of addiction and being forced to stop using prescription pain pills lots of kids turned to heroin because it was cheaper and more easily available.
I am very "out" about my recovery so I'll add I last thing. I go to lots and lots of 12 step meetings.
Every time, (well 98%) someone shares about relapsing 1 major reason is "I started pain pills for medical reasons and could not stop."
Please. Ask your Drs how much addiction work they did in Medical school. The usual answer is 2 hours.
Neil
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From: Tom Krehbiel
Subject: Re: All Hell Breaks Loose
I'm one of the alte kakers I guess. I can remember when this happened.
It was five days after that Eisenhower sent troops to Little Rock. Could have been coincidence.
September 19, 1957
"Louis Armstrong, Barring Soviet Tour, Denounces Eisenhower and Gov. Faubus"
Grand Forks, N.D., Sept. 18 (AP) -- Trumpet player Louis Armstrong said last night he had given up plans for a Government-sponsored trip to the Soviet Union because "the way they are treating my people in the South, the Government can go to hell."
Here for a concert, Mr. Armstrong said President Eisenhower had "no guts" and described Gov. Orval E. Faubus of Arkansas as an "uneducated plow boy."
He said the President was "two-faced" and had allowed Governor Faubus to run the Federal Government.
"It's getting almost so bad a colored man hasn't got any country," the Negro entertainer said.
"Don't get me wrong," he added, "the South is full of intelligent white people, it's bad for the lower class people who make all the noise, though."
He said if he ever did go to the Soviet Union, "I'll do it on my own."
In Washington the State Department declined to comment on Mr. Armstrong's statements. Officials made no attempt, however, to hide the concern they caused.
Mr. Armstrong was regarded by the State Department as perhaps the most effective unofficial goodwill ambassador this country had.
They said Soviet propagandists undoubtedly would seize on Mr. Armstrong's words.
www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/reviews/armstrong-eisenhower.html ______________________________________
From: David Hughes
Subject: Re: You Don't Know What You've Got Till It's Gone
Bob,
I'm 65 and both parents died within a year and a half of each other over thirty years ago. After my father died (mom went first) the most profound observation in the months and years to follow, was that I had lost my immediate source of family information.
As a child and as an adult, I was so used to being able to ask for example, "Mom, what was the name of the town where Aunt June was from in Russia?" or "What was the name of that lake when I cut my foot that summer?"--when both parents are gone, you learn those personal stories and the details of them that you do not recall, are now gone forever.
The first time it happened to me it was shocking and then just sad. Sad because I cared to know, but then when I'm gone, no one will care about those little bits that were important and made up my life.
Enjoy the moments--they are mostly just yours.
David Hughes
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